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Time to say au-revoir to Debuchy and Gibbs?

Posted by (deleted user) over 5 years ago · 30 replies

Debuchy and Gibbs have been - all too easily - usurped by the form of Bellerín and Monreal, respectively. Obviously Wenger needs to rotate at times and so the two of them have played in a makeshift back four in cup games (including last season's FA Cup run until the final) but have looked less than convincing, or even interested.

Teams have scored almost identical goals time and again with the two of them in the line-up: pass behind Debuchy, cross from the byline to the far post, header in... Sheff Wed scored a similar goal too by exploiting Debuchy's poor positioning to get in behind him and cut it back to the edge of the box.

Unfortunately for the pair of them, they just don't seem to cope well with having competition and for their own sakes as much as ours, is it time to send them on their way and bring in new players?

Is there anyone that we could get to replace them?? Bearing in mind we're not going to sign Alaba and Lahm or Jordi Alba...

30 Comments

Ix Techau Evil Mastermind 14,276 pts
Posted over 5 years ago by Ix Techau

Name-calling is real mature, so kudos.

So is showing a picture of a broken record, so kudos. Either way, it's not really name calling is it. I think what you are doing is inventing reasons to dislike Debuchy (scapegoating), and I find that behaviour part of the typical fickle behaviour among many Arsenal fans.

And it's not really the same is it. Like if we conceded a large number of goals from headers because Koscielny/Mertesacker gets repeatedly beaten, it's not a coincidence.So goals from x area of a pitch while x player is on the pitch (defending that area) can't really be a coincidence.

You are comparing a specific goal stat used to identify problem areas to the impact of one player in a 11-man team sport. Saying we've lost every game when Debuchy has played is a TV filler stat, it has no actual meaning. And again, we can use that same logic to say Iwobi is the cause of all our problems, because he has the same "stat" as Debuchy. And even if it wasn't a pointless stat, four games is way below the sample size needed to make an actual argument out of it.

So you can't really use this pointless stat as an argument as to why you inexplicably try to invent fault where there is none. It is clear you have some anti-Debuchy agenda, proven by trying to convince the world it was his "failed clearance" that cost us the second goal at Bayern. I just don't know why, other than what you call name calling - fickle scapegoatism. Which is exactly what it looks like.

I have no preference to which right back we play, as long as it's the best one. Currently Bellerin is better on form, but I believe that Debuchy is better when also in form. But you seem to prefer Bellerin even if he is out of form, which is very odd.

Omglol 3,323 pts
Posted over 5 years ago by Omglol

Just like you scapegoating Arsene Wenger, every time we lose (take that IX ). But, i cant undestand football fans who demand more options in team, but every time someone cement his place in starting XI his replacement is hated and seen not good enough. Same happened to Monreal when Gibbs was in good form and here we are year after same is happening to Gibbs when Monreal is in magnificent form. On that kind of treatmant you can add Per, jack,Theo, ox, Ramsey, some even started doing this vs Santi(lunatics)

Ix Techau Evil Mastermind 14,276 pts
Posted over 5 years ago by Ix Techau

Just like you scapegoating Arsene Wenger, every time we lose (take that IX ).

Holding the manager accountable for tactical errors has nothing to do with scapegoating. And besides, he is the decision-maker, so when things go wrong he should be held responsible, just like he should be credited for wins and trophies. You can't have one without the other.

But when it comes to players it's very rarely the fault of one player. It's a team sport, which means every action or decision is based on what your teammates are doing. If Debuchy makes a wonky tackle it's unlikely he did it in isolation. It was likely made because he had to make a quick decision based on where his immediate teammates positioned themselves.

For example:

  • Against Bayern he played with Mertesacker and Gabriel as CBs, Joel Campbell in front of him and Coquelin as his closest DM. Campbell is not very good at defensive duties, and Bayern's biggest strength is flank play. Despite this he still performed well, especially in the second half. Not excellent, but not awful either.

  • Against Sheffield Wednesday he played with Chambers and Mertesacker as CBs, Joel Campbell in front of him and Flamini as closest DM. Wednesday are inferior to Bayern of course, and Debuchy made a few errors in this game. But how many of those errors would have happened with Mertesacker + Koscielny as CBs, Ramsey or Ox playing in front of him and Coquelin as closest DM?

  • Against Spurs he again had Chambers and Mertesacker as CBs, Joel Campbell in front of him (are you noticing a pattern...hint: Joel Campbell) and Flamini as closest DM...and he did make one error in the game but played very well overall, and we won the game.

  • Against Dinamo Zagreb he had Gabriel and Koscielny as CBs, Ox in front of him and Cazorla as closest DM. An error or two but probably our best player on the pitch that evening.

So as you can see, not only has Debuchy actually played well or very good in most of those games, he's also had to do it in ever-changing line-ups with ever-changing closest teammates. He's had Joel Campbell or Ox in front of him, a mixture of all our CBs next to him, and three different DMs closest to him.

It's not realistic to think he could stay consistent when the closest players on the pitch keep changing. Bellerin, on the other hand, has had the luxury of playing next to a non-rotated side. He has often played with Mertesacker + Koscielny as CBs, Ramsey in front of him (who is very good at defensive duties) and Coquelin as closest DM (one of the most in-form DMs in the world currently).

Not really that surprising that Debuchy is taking some time to come back to his prime. Bellerin is better currently, but we just don't know what the scenario will be in a few months.

Deleted User
Posted over 5 years ago by (user deleted)

So is showing a picture of a broken record, so kudos. Either way, it's not really name calling is it. I think what you are doing is inventing reasons to dislike Debuchy (scapegoating), and I find that behaviour part of the typical fickle behaviour among many Arsenal fans.You are comparing a specific goal stat used to identify problem areas to the impact of one player in a 11-man team sport. Saying we've lost every game when Debuchy has played is a TV filler stat, it has no actual meaning. And again, we can use that same logic to say Iwobi is the cause of all our problems, because he has the same "stat" as Debuchy. And even if it wasn't a pointless stat, four games is way below the sample size needed to make an actual argument out of it.So you can't really use this pointless stat as an argument as to why you inexplicably try to invent fault where there is none. It is clear you have some anti-Debuchy agenda, proven by trying to convince the world it was his "failed clearance" that cost us the second goal at Bayern. I just don't know why, other than what you call name calling - fickle scapegoatism. Which is exactly what it looks like.I have no preference to which right back we play, as long as it's the best one. Currently Bellerin is better on form, but I believe that Debuchy is better when also in form. But you seem to prefer Bellerin even if he is out of form, which is very odd.

Haha fucking hell. Grow up, and don't create a forum for debate if you can't then have a healthy debate without accusing someone else of being fickle, having an agenda or inventing reasons to dislike someone when I've given perfectly valid points that you just dismiss again and again without giving your own evidence except stats from 2 years ago.

I have no reason to say Bellerin is better even when out of form because he hasn't actually been out of form yet. Struggled in his first game against Dortmund and looked way off the pace but since he's played in the PL he's been one of our best players. On the other hand, Debuchy has only played a handful of games for us and unfortunately since returning from injury/ies he's not been the player I expected. I would very much like to see him put in an absolute stormer today and provide real competition for Bellerin.

So, no. I'm not being fickle - I'm making an argument to back up my opinion, which happens to reflect negatively on an Arsenal player (of course it's not at all fickle to suggest Joel Campbell is error-prone and not that good even though he was MotM against Swans - and surely even you praised him).

And why the hell would I have an agenda? I have no influence over anyone - I don't have the power to make Wenger sell Debuchy, I'm expressing my opinion. Stop using Mourinho-isms and pull your head out from your backside

Ix Techau Evil Mastermind 14,276 pts
Posted over 5 years ago by Ix Techau

Haha fucking hell. Grow up, and don't create a forum for debate if you can't then have a healthy debate without accusing someone else of being fickle, having an agenda or inventing reasons to dislike someone when I've given perfectly valid points that you just dismiss again and again without giving your own evidence except stats from 2 years ago.

Haha fucking hell. Perhaps don't become a member on a forum for debate if you can't handle when people don't share your opinion or prove you wrong, which I have done numerous times so far. I have told you why Debuchy isn't as poor as you want him to be. I have broken down exactly why Debuchy was at no fault for Muller's goal but you still believe otherwise. I have shown you step-by-step video evidence that he made no attempt at a clearance and yet you believe he made a failed clearance.

I'm calling you a fickle scapegoatist because that is what you are, Joss Bennett. Deleting your account because you are frustrated that I don't share your fickleness will not change this fact. You're seriously suggesting that we should get rid of Gibbs and Debuchy because they aren't first-choice at the minute. That is the definition of being a fickle fan.

You have done nothing on this forum except try to convince people that Debuchy is to blame for the four games he's been involved in, completely ignoring that Joel Campbell has a similar record. And you've tried to argue this not with facts but by referring to TV stats like 'player win ratio' when you only have four games as the sample size.

And when people don't agree with you, you throw your toys out of the pram, tell people to grow up and then delete your account. It's hilarious.

You are, essentially, the equivalent of TopTopQuality, but for Debuchy.

Posted over 5 years ago by jayramfootball

Debuchy is a realy poor footballer - limited pace and no intelligence. We really need Bellerin fit again. Gibb still has a chance - but he should be working every day on reviving his right leg, which seems to have never worked. He just drags it around and uses it as support.

Posted over 5 years ago by jayramfootball

Dumbest thing I've ever read.

haha, I have heard dumber. He was a little better against Spurs ot be fair, but I simply dont rate him. I also cant wait for Bellerin to come back in.

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